Again, Darrell, before the gospels were written
you’ve got Paul at 55 in A.D. talking to the folks in Corinthians, writing his book
there. He’d actually spoken to them in 50 A.D. and he’s talking about stuff that happened
that goes all the way back to the events themselves. And he tells them “For I delivered to you
as of first importance what I also received that,” here it is, “Christ died for our
sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third
day and then He appeared to Cephas and then to the twelve, then to the 500, then to James
and then last of all to Paul.” What I’m saying is He was buried and then He was raised.
That implies if He was raised, that tomb’s empty. He couldn’t have said that if it
wasn’t true. Bock: If His body’s in the tomb how does
He appear to the disciples? Ankerberg: Right.
Bock: And that’s basically what you’re dealing with. So He, He was raised and appeared.
And the appearances are described as physical appearances. They aren’t visions. They aren’t
things happening internally to people. He’s, He’s portrayed as eating meals and things
like this. Ankerberg: Yeah, let’s, let’s take this
thing; we’ve got, you’ve got hallucinations or visions.
Bock: Un huh. Ankerberg: Okay, and there’s a little differentiation
between those, but and then we’ve got this thing of what kind of a resurrection was it?
Was it spiritual, you know, or was it this a real physical, bodily resurrection? Let’s
take the first one. Why wasn’t, why, why can you not tack this whole idea of Jesus
rising from the dead as to being caused by the disciples having hallucinations?
Bock: Well because you’ve got group hallucination that you’ve got to argue for eventually,
if you take the 1 Corinthian’s testimony seriously, ah, 500 at once. Ah, He’s appearing
to the twelve ah, that kind of thing. These are group hallucinations. Now generally speaking,
hallucinations don’t happen in a group unless you’re taking something. (laughing)
Ankerberg: That’s right. Bock: So.
Ankerberg: If you’re having a dream about going to Tahiti and you, and you say, you
wake up your wife and say, join me in the dream, she, you both can’t go to the dream
at the same time. Bock: Exactly right, exactly right. So um,
Ankerberg: You Bock: You’ve got to scene three, that’s
not happening. So, so there’s, the hallucination situation has a problem because of the group
testimony that we’re dealing with in many of the scenes.
Ankerberg: Yeah, all right, and then take this thing of ah, there’s basically two
kinds of visions as well. Bock: Yeah, the visionary explanation really
is, is also usually psychologically based. And so the idea is they had a vision. They
had a sense, a premonition that, that Jesus was present after life. You know this is one
that I get because I had a mom who died very, very young and there was a sense after she
died at spots that I could sense her presence, feel her voice, those kinds of things. That’s
the kind of comparisons skeptical people will make to this. And, and like I say, I can get
that because my sister and I have talked about these kinds of experiences.
Ankerberg: Grief, grief. Bock: They’re, they’re grief driven, but
they’re also, I, I think the other dimension of it is, is that they, they represent the
presence of a power of someone in your life. I mean I don’t, I don’t have that experience
with my neighbor down the street. You know this is my mom. I have that experience with
people that I’ve spent a lot of time with who I really miss, that kind of thing. But
again, we’ve got the group element that’s going here. We’ve got the sense of that’s
not this experience. That experience that of people who’ve had that sense of a presence.
That’s not where they’re, what we’re Bock: Yeah.